"Not a job for a Girl" to CEO: The Latina Leader Remaking Construction
Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, Lioness, welcome to the show, Lioness Conversations, where we help women be brave, to lead with confidence and joy, and to find your path to the most meaningful work of your life. I'm your host, Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women. You can find out more about the Lioness community at jenportercoach.com. Today, we have a very special guest and my friend, Ale Spray.
As a Latina CEO, president of the Hispanic Contractors of Colorado, board member, mentor, and dedicated advocate, Ale Spray is committed to building future leaders within the construction industry and beyond. Ale welcome to the show.
Ale Spray (00:48)
Hello, Jen. Thank you so much for the invitation. It's an honor to be having this chat, this friendly chat.
Jen Porter (00:54)
I'm so happy.
I'm so happy for people to get to hear your story because it really is a phenomenal one. So for the listeners, Ale and I got connected probably five years ago, right when I moved to Denver, Colorado. And we sat beside each other at a conference and became friends ever since. And that's just who Ale is. She's a connector. She knows everybody in the area. And you've worked really hard to become
connected and to be a supporter of not just your industry but of people around you. So it's been really fun to get to share life with you over these years. So tell us what you're doing. So you're the president and CEO of the HCC, Hispanic Contractors of Colorado. Tell everybody like what's the focus of HCC and what your role is.
Ale Spray (01:46)
Yes, thank you. I'm really passionate about this role. It has been a year and three months on it, but I've been involved in the association for 20 plus years when I moved to Colorado as a volunteer, as a committee member, as a board member, as a board chair for two years. And now the opportunity to lead the organization, HCC, as we know it in the short, was founded in 1990 by
10, 11 Hispanic business owners in construction. And they saw how the construction industry was booming, building from an airport, a stadium. And they were just having to have the opportunity to send their companies to bigger contractors to build this support among them to have opportunities. So in collaboration with the city in County of Denver, create an ordinance to give opportunities to what we call diverse businesses, minority women only.
veteran-owned small businesses to have the opportunity to compete for projects and be positioned to grow because at the end they just want to provide for their family, grow a company, create generational wealth for them and their family. So that was the pillar of the organization and it continues 35 years later. So we advocate, we support, we connect, we represent what we call the diverse businesses minority.
women, veteran and small business in the construction industry and the design. Not because it's the right thing to do, it's because we're supporting local, we're growing our local talent, we're growing our local economy. So it's combining the passion of construction and supporting hardworking people that they just decide, I'm going to work for myself, I'm going to be my own boss. And they just need the connections, they need the support, they need the education.
And while I have not been an entrepreneur, I have watched how hard they work for this and how successful some of them are, and we keep supporting them. And that's pretty much the passion that I have of leading out this organization.
Jen Porter (03:57)
Well, they are very lucky to have you leading this organization. And you're one of those really hardworking leaders. I'm imagining years ago when you were growing up, you probably didn't see yourself as the president and CEO of an organization in the construction industry.
Ale Spray (04:19)
Nope, not at all.
I didn't even see myself in a different country, you know.
Jen Porter (04:23)
Yeah,
so you grew up in Mexico.
Ale Spray (04:26)
I grew up in Guadalajara, Mexico. I'm the baby one in my family, kind of the rebel one, know, typical family, my mom, my dad, my dad was in construction. So I always like, I was inquisitive, asking questions, always wanted to learn how, why, and when he showed me how to build things from a piece of paper, I was always curious. I love math.
So something really strange for a woman sometimes in Mexico that I love Matt. So when I saw the opportunity to say, I want to be an engineer. I want to be in construction. I was told obviously by my own father who loved me dearly and say that's not a job for a woman. And I don't think he, he wanted to, he was not questioning my capabilities. He just didn't want to see his baby girl being in a, in a.
environment that he has known so much that was not so welcoming. There was a little toxic. There was a little even dangerous because of the harassment and how sometimes women are perceived. So I always grew up with the notion that when you told me that's not for a girl, that's not for a woman, or you cannot do this because you're this, it just gives me the first gets me so angry. But then it's like, OK, then let me show you.
that it can be done and it can be done in a good way, right? So.
Jen Porter (05:55)
So
how old were you when you first imagined, I'd like to go in the same industry that my dad's in, the construction industry.
Ale Spray (05:59)
Yeah.
I believe it was around between middle school and high school because I was showing already that aptitude for algebra calculus, know, the math. And I didn't know what I wanted to do. Most of my families are accountants, CPAs, and those numbers, no offense, they didn't get me excited. When my dad would show me his drawings and show me, and then my mom did a renovation in the house and see how things change.
Jen Porter (06:23)
Okay.
Ale Spray (06:32)
And how we changing the landscape or a city building something as a hospital, a home, a library, a police station. just opened my eyes. It's like, there's something about this that we can make an impact. So I just pushed like, okay, I'm good at math. I like construction, but then when I start seeing, maybe I'm not supposed to be an engineer. I consider being an architect. But then I, the more I learn and I try it's like, no, architect is not my.
I is the engineering portion of creating, designing, calculating, doing something like that that I was more passionate. It hurt me when my dad told me that's a job, job for a woman. And I enrolled in a different major as industrial engineering for, I would say, a couple of months. I told my mom I'm changing my major. And she said, you're the one that is going to tell your dad. So I brought the news to him.
And he's like, you know, I can tell you don't do it, don't do it. That's not your personality. The more I tell you don't do it, the more you're going to do it. So he knew.
Jen Porter (07:37)
He knew that you had that spirit
inside of you to press into what you really wanted to do. So you changed your major in college within the first couple of months, and then you moved into engineering. Now, I remember this story because you've told me this before, but what happened when you went into your first engineering 101 class?
Ale Spray (07:48)
Yes, couple of
full sibling tineering. Yes.
So we have the core classes, so the math and everything, and you'll be in a room with many students going into the core classes. Then we start having more classes directed or more specific construction. So civil engineers, so one of them was surveying class. And I remember the class was around 40, 40 students. There was me and another student, another female student. And the teacher looked at me and said, what are you doing in this classroom?
And I say, want to be a, well, this is surveying one one. have to take it for my credits. He's like, no, I mean, why are you trying to be an engineer? Why you want this career? You should be preparing yourself to be a wife, to learn how to cook, how to sew, how to be a typical housewife. Right. And it was interesting because nobody say anything.
And I was like, well, you know, I don't like cooking. I don't like sewing. So I'm going to stick to engineering. So I will stay here in this class. He didn't take it that funny. There is six months that I was that class going in the field and doing our training. He always was after me. How you calculate this, how you do this. He was really hard on me, sometimes even pointing the things that I was not doing right.
Jen Porter (09:08)
Okay.
Ale Spray (09:26)
interesting enough that teacher or that professor when I graduated came and congratulated me and say, I was hard on you because I needed to teach you how this industry is about. But I want to say I wish you would have been more of the mentor to help me not to want me to quit. But I never have a female professor. I never have a female mentor. have I was one of the only women in a class of 24 men graduating civil engineering.
And it was, it was hard because sometimes, you know, the emotional things, sometimes we go as women, I could not relate. And the guys would be like, don't be emotional. You want this? So be one of us. Right. So I had to learn to be one of them. Sometimes hiding some emotions, sometimes just trying to fit with them and just trying to keep up with that. So I think that was the drive of.
just because somebody didn't show me or support me, I don't have to go with the mentality is like, I did it, my, so you can do it too. It's like, no, I did it, but that doesn't mean it has to be done again. We have to change it. Yeah.
Jen Porter (10:40)
So
when that professor was hard on you and certainly questioning you, did you take that as he's trying to make me better or did you think he was trying to get you to quit?
Ale Spray (10:53)
I feel that he wanted me to quit. Yes. Yes.
Jen Porter (10:56)
And
how did you push through your dad's resistance to this, probably your mom's, maybe even other people in your family and your professors? What was it about you that helped you push through all of that resistance?
Ale Spray (11:14)
As my grandma, resting peace will say, I think it's part of that stubbornness that I have in me. That if you're expecting me to fail, I'm going to work hard. And interestingly enough, I didn't have the best grade in that class, right? He was really hard on me and I didn't pass it really. I think I almost failed the class because he was really hard. But I also, think I didn't, I think it was more the rebellious of like
Okay, you're trying to fight, I wanna fight you instead of fighting in a smarter way, right? So I learned that sometimes not everybody is gonna be in your corner, but you don't have to focus your energy on fighting them back. You have to focus the energy on what you know how to do best. And that will show them automatically, organically, or even in a way that you don't need to focus on that because the energy is not about you and them. The energy is about you and you want it to do.
So after six months when I was done with that class and I said, full done, ready, got it. They didn't, they didn't pass it with flying colors, but it's done. And I found other teachers that again, all men that they were, didn't even the preference for being woman. You're a student, you're here. There was one in my final year that he was a really good mentor and advocate. And it's like, you just have to persevere. Just we know that you have it in you.
because we see how you like to learn, how you collaborate with everybody. But interestingly enough, they never saw me what I was doing. I've been thinking about writing them and say, this is what I'm doing now, right?
Jen Porter (12:54)
Definitely.
Can you imagine? Do you have their contact information to share?
Ale Spray (13:00)
I don't know. I have been thinking of emailing my alma mater and my university and share with them because they have an alumni page saying, hey, this is me. So that is the am I bragging or am I sharing? And it's that conflict that I
Jen Porter (13:07)
Yes!
Well, that's for you to figure out, right? That's the internal work that you have to do to
figure out what is my motivation in this. But the way I hear you describing this, you were a trailblazer. You were the one that did the hard work of blazing that trail so that I am certain it was easier for other girls and women to enter into that industry.
Ale Spray (13:34)
Yeah,
there were three young women after in the class after me and we became good friends. There was two in the class before me, but we didn't connect much. I think it was that mentality of like, I'm doing on my own and I can do it. We don't want to create it. They these girly girls, right? It was that being young and naive, but I still would stay in touch with the
My classmates from a generation after me, we stay in touch and they're doing amazing work. One works for a multinational, healthy as head of marketing. So we kind of, we hope they were seeing more women in our college to come in through. I my path for me, right? I'm also grew up being not much of a girly girl because I grew up more
And I'm kind of by myself. There were not many girls growing in my neighborhood. I always wanted to hang out with my brother's friends, but my brother who gets so mad. So you're a girl, go back home and play with your dolls. And that will get me so mad. So I didn't learn how to be that. I want to play with the girls, but I learned in college is like, need to stick together. We need to support each other. And we did in our own way. But we also had to be, we have the mentality is like, I'm proven in.
everybody, right? I don't need to lean too much on them because I'm proving that, which in retrospective is like, that was pretty not so smart, but that's how we were kind of wired and how the system was putting us as well too. Yeah.
Jen Porter (15:16)
Yeah,
yeah. I can just imagine how inspiring that would be for girls and young women to hear the success story of where you are now. It's the whole reason I'm doing the podcast is to inspire women and girls from these brave stories. know, of women pushing through resistance, being resilient, having that grit, having a vision and moving toward it.
and doing the hard work to then get to the place that they really felt they were called to be.
Ale Spray (15:50)
And it is sometimes I wanted to quit, believe me, sometimes I'm like, I doing the right thing? Right. I have a boyfriend that when I started the career and we broke up a little before the last, my senior year, because he's like, you're too much in your career. You're always around men. So that's not for me. And also affected how potential boyfriends will see me. You're in this career. Why were you being so weird in this career?
So there were times that I'm like, why am I doing this? Why I'm so obsessed with this? But then I go back to, I'm following my dad's footsteps and doing a legacy for him too. So I guess, obviously the desire of like, not gonna give it up. It's not like it was always easy, right? I mean, even from the day that you will have your unexpected period and you're like looking around in your classrooms like.
Okay, who has a feminine brother? Well, I know nobody's gonna have one. you and I could not complain. I'm having cramps, right? There were even those simple things that I have to be always prepared of. I cannot go to somebody like, you have something? I'm in my period. And, know, it was those things that doesn't mean so much. But at that moment, at that age,
They were hard. Yeah.
Jen Porter (17:17)
yeah. So how did you land your first job in construction?
Ale Spray (17:21)
So I work for an architect doing renovations. I made him an application trip and I told him what I did and he offered me a job back in Guadalajara. I started doing renovations for him. Then my second job was working for the public works department in Guadalajara. And then I learned that, you know, in Mexico, in order to get a really good well-paid job, you have to master two languages. So I will start my day working at nine o'clock in the morning.
So I started looking at classes and there was a school that would teach English as second language from seven in the morning to 830. So I told my mom, I'm gonna do this for two years. And she's like, what time you have to get up? Well, I have to get up around 530 in order to get dressed and ready and be on the road at 630 to my class at seven at seven to 830, 830 I finished and I will go to work after that. And my brother called me crazy why I wanted to get up.
so early. And when I finished my two years of English, I already studied in high school and middle school, but this one's having a certificate that I went through English as a second language. And I run into a friend from college and he's like, looking for a project engineer, but he has to have some good knowledge of English because our client is an American company. So I say, Hey, perfect. I just finished this. So I work for a company working as we call it, the owner's representative.
representing the manufacturing company building an industrial park in Guadalajara. So I was in charge of concrete reports, concrete and database and all that kind of reporting that we do in quality control and quality assurance for concrete. And that was a big exposure for me to see construction. I met a foreman, a superintendent, a woman that she was leading a crew of
Well, their support is structural steel. And I was so in awe for her because she will come, nothing, no makeup, no anything, her books, her construction gear. But every time she will walk in the room and start talking about the issues her team was having, everybody will respect her and listen to her. And, you know, she's like, you just have to be tough, but professional and recognize the value of everybody in the team, right?
And I was just impressed because it was the first time seeing another woman in a job site. And she said, it's not easy. Sometimes they call you names. Sometimes they. And in Mexico, there's not much of a sexual harassment complaint or anything. will I will be walking in the job sites with my gear and the men will say things to me. They will be whistling at me until one day I have to yell at them and even cursing at them and say, if you don't respect me.
I will go to your supervisors and get you out of this job. And because the client was an American company, they have that protection. since then, I was so scared. was shaking when I was yelling at them because I walked by the crew and they start saying things to me and I turn around and I'm like, I have to put a stop. So that was one of the most scary, but more satisfying things to tell them I'm here to work as you are.
Jen Porter (20:40)
Yeah.
Ale Spray (20:43)
you decide this respect and you're going to give me that respect. If you don't, I'm going to your supervisor and I'm going to put that complaint. But it was scary because you don't know what they will do after that. But that female superintendent from the steel company, she showed me you have to put them in their place or you don't end that respect. So there has been a lot of things that I was like, and I stopped wearing makeup because like I cannot wear makeup in a job site. I don't want to draw attention.
Jen Porter (21:13)
Yeah.
Ale Spray (21:13)
I will
wear big pants, will wear big shirts in order for me not to draw that attention. Try to lose that little femininity because it's like, I don't want to look too women, right? And that's a hard thing to say. I don't want to look like a woman.
Jen Porter (21:24)
Mm-hmm.
It's a self-protective measure. Yeah. So when you were in those jobs, were you feeling like this is it? I love what I'm doing. You did.
Ale Spray (21:38)
yeah,
there was nothing better to put my work boots all dirty in my jeans and just go into seeing and see how things were put together when we will have steel beams coming to the job site and they will with the crane, they will put them in place when they will pour in concrete and then how things change from one week to another and going to the meetings and talk about the challenges and you it was like
This, love it. And when the building was done, we have three buildings, but one building was done, walking inside the building and say, my God, I was here when this was just dirt, right? And it was just funny because my friends, sometimes my female friends will be like, why do you like it? You're exposed to the element, you're getting sunburned, you're getting your face so dirty because of the dirt. And I'm like, I don't care. It's just fun. It's just amazing what we can do as a team.
Jen Porter (22:23)
Hahaha.
Ale Spray (22:37)
as what this is going to become. So that fire has never stopped. I love going to job sites and seeing what we do.
Jen Porter (22:48)
And how did you get to the US?
Ale Spray (22:50)
So working for that company, the client was an American company. The project manager for that company, it was my soon to be husband and we met there. We started dating and he's a Colorado boy. He's from Michigan, they moved to Colorado and he said, I'm moving. Would you like to move with me? But, you know, being from a good Catholic household.
There was not much of the concept of you just move in. So we decided to get married. We got married in Mexico. We moved here to Colorado in October 1999. Great men, love it to pieces. Since then, we have been now separated, divorced for now 10 years, different circumstances. But he was the one that kind of I told people blame him or say thank you. They took the Guadalajara girl to Colorado.
Yes.
Jen Porter (23:48)
And so how did you navigate being in the new country and finding your next job?
Ale Spray (23:55)
You know, it's interesting because I have never been really outside the country, I've visited states around Mexico, but this was my first adventure of being away from my family. And it felt so exciting and oh my God, I'm here by myself. The first two weeks is exciting and it's so great. And it hits you like a brick of walls. You don't have your family. You don't have your friends. You don't have your own car. I left even my dog with my mom.
I didn't have anything that I could call. I mean, my clothes, my everything, but I will know that. And this was before the big internet phones and everything. I will call my mom once a week with a credit, a calling car, watching the minutes, see how everybody was doing. And, you know, knowing that my family was getting together at my grandma's house, that everybody, how dare they move and start making their life without me. They were.
surviving without me, it was really hard. was, I sometimes I'm like, did I make the right choice? Right? When you move as an adult to a new country, it's harder to make friends because I didn't have my friends from high school, college. They were back home. I was not in a sorority. I was not in clubs in college because they were back home. So coming here without any, we call social capital, it was just my husband.
and his friends, which they were really great people, but I didn't feel connected to them. They welcomed me. So we live in an apartment in Longmont for a couple of months. Then in Boulder, I was afraid of leaving my house because I was afraid of getting lost. I was afraid of not finding my way. I was afraid of speaking in English, even though I knew the language. I was so I felt really lonely not having my family and, you know, the Latino culture were really tight community.
I was struggling trying to find my village here.
Jen Porter (25:59)
Yeah.
So how did you break out of that? Because now you know everybody.
Ale Spray (26:02)
how did I break on that? Well,
it was interesting because, you know, it's one of those aha moments. I was cooking because I didn't have a job then, so I am cooking. So I should have cried to my teacher. Well, now I'm learning to cook. I guess that's why you want it. Not that I like it, but I have to do something to help the household. One time, and we were going through a green crop and work permit process.
Jen Porter (26:13)
you
Ale Spray (26:31)
I get both within six months and I have a visa to come here and stay for six months until my paperwork. So he came and that's when I got that green card and I say, I have two choices. I can embrace this opportunity and make the best out of it. Why I can keep living and why or what if and what is everybody doing back home and keep thinking in the past and be miserable and make everybody around miserable. So I'm like,
Let's try to make the best out of it, right? I have a job for a year and I have a sub-translator in a manufacturing company helping translate the work process in Spanish because the labor force was mostly Hispanic. The company closed and that was the push of, OK, go back to construction. This is what you like. I apply, I will say 40 to 50 applications in my resume to companies. yeah, I was like, I want a job.
Jen Porter (27:27)
wow.
Ale Spray (27:30)
and nobody will call me back. So one time I pick up the phone and I call a company like I said my resume, I want to know what's going on. And the response like, well, first, you're overqualified for the job that we're posting. Second, your degree, you know, you're a civil engineer, but being a civil engineer in the United States is completely different. your credits might not transfer automatically. So either you have to go back to school or you have to shadow an engineer or you have to do something. And again,
The internet wasn't what it was now, so I couldn't email my school, say, transfer the credits and translate them and everything. And I didn't, we didn't have the financial means to make it back to school. So I said, you know what? Okay, I get it. Start from zero. You call your parents and say, you remember those four years and one year of my dissertation and my thesis to get my professional engineer license to say, remember those four or five years? Well, they don't count here, so I'm starting from zero.
Jen Porter (28:10)
Mm-hmm.
Ale Spray (28:28)
Right. It was really hard to tell your parents all the money they invested. It's like, okay. But my parents both were like, there is no job that is degrading. So whatever you have to do in order to get the path that you want in the industry that you like, just go for it. Right. You will find your way and just go for it. So I applied for an entry level estimating coordinator in a company.
Jen Porter (28:48)
Yeah.
Ale Spray (28:57)
the owner saw me applying when I came to the office and applying, which it was another, I think a lucky star or something in the destiny because he, that person never, welcomed people in the lobby. He will ask the people to come back to his office to welcome them. So I was filling my application and in the lobby area. And he happened to sit next to me talking to some, to his guests. That was at that moment.
which interesting enough, he was the executive director that was leading the organization that I'm leading now. Yeah, talk about causes. So they were because he was the president of the board at that moment of the organization. And he saw me filling the application. I went back home. I got a message in my mainstream machine. The job is already taken. The owner of the company wants to talk to you. He wants to introduce an idea.
Jen Porter (29:31)
wow.
So
in that moment in the lobby, you met the manager, but also the head of the agency.
Ale Spray (29:56)
the owner.
Yeah, so it was the owner of the company talking to the executive director to who was the executive director of HCC. They were talking because again, he was the chair of the board and they were talking business about HCC. But it was interesting that he came and sat with her instead of her going to his office. So in that moment you have the he was the board chair.
Jen Porter (29:59)
at this.
Ale Spray (30:23)
Helga was the executive director and I'm just filling an application. And he saw me filling the application. I went back on a Monday and he said, you know, I saw you filling the application. How would you like an opportunity to work in our estimating department? And I'm like, I don't know much about estimating. So do you want to learn? say I want a job and I want to learn. It's like, will cause some of your references from my translation, a translator job.
Now I was really fortunate that people say you better hire her. She's a hard worker. So he hired me. He was the best, the best mentor, sponsor, guidance, a little bit of a father figure for me here in the United States, Manuel Gonzalez. He gave me the opportunity. He believed in me just by looking at me and filling an application. And I always ask him what drove you? It's like, there was something that I knew that you were hard.
Jen Porter (31:21)
something about you.
Ale Spray (31:23)
There was something about you. Interesting enough, this morning I got a call from his son. He's working in Texas but wants to come back to Corrado. So he's asking me, you're connected in many places. Can you help me find my next job back in Corrado? I want to be home with close to my parents. So I'm working and paying it back to him to help his son. Yeah. Yes, Manuel Gonzalez. Yeah.
Jen Porter (31:45)
I
So let's talk about him. Manuel Gonzales, right? So what role
did he play over the course of a couple of decades?
Ale Spray (31:58)
I worked for his company for 17 years. He was the person I would trust and the person I would go up right away. If I have an idea, I will go to him. I want this manual. He will be like, why? What is it going to do for you? And how are you going to get there? Right. Sometimes he will help me and give me that mental or emotional. Okay, lady, you are going too far. Come back. He will ground me down.
He will be that sponsor too because he will say, okay, I'm going to put my hand in fight for you. I'm going to give you this opportunity. So I'm expecting you're going to do great. Right. And if you don't tell me why you learn about it. So when I got involved in HCC working in his company, I told him, I'm going to get involved as a volunteer. Go for it. One day I told him, I'm going to become a board member. He's like, why you want it and how you're going to get there. Right.
And one day I came and tell I'm going to be the president of the board. Because OK, how are you going to get there? And everybody knew there was even the joke in the company AMI Mechanical. Ale, need to ask him for a manial bet. You go and see if he's in a good mood, because if he's not in a good mood, we're not going to ask it. He, like I said, he was really a father figure, a support, a mentor, a guidance.
Like I say sometimes that reasoning sometimes for me is like it's not happening now but that doesn't mean that doesn't happen ever but maybe you're not ready there. He will have also those tough conversations. He will be the one I will listen to. He was instrumental.
Jen Porter (33:40)
You know, I'm noticing the juxtaposition of the teacher that you had in college who was hard on you and was trying to get you to quit. And you said to him at graduation, you should have been a mentor, not a critic. And now there's somebody that enters your life who is an advocate and a mentor and someone that opens doors for you, someone who believed in you. And it seems like
Ale Spray (33:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Jen Porter (34:07)
It helped you fly and soar.
Ale Spray (34:11)
He helped me fly, so he gave me after being an estimator, he's like, I want you to do the marketing. And I'm like, I don't know marketing. It's like, you will learn. Okay. And then I asked him, I want to do business development. He's like, you do it, right? And he will always compensate my work really, really well. And when it was the opportunity for me to find something different outside after 17 years was scary.
But he was really wise and told me, I can keep throwing money at you, but it's not about the money. It's about what you want to do and what you need to do. And here you can come back anytime that I think it's time for you to to fly. Yeah. And that felt like a second divorce, to be honest. Yeah, because for 17 years you will have the same commute, go to your office, you know your people and everything.
Jen Porter (35:00)
Did it really?
Ale Spray (35:08)
And it's starting a new company, a different commute, a different office, different people. You feel again, like I lost something, right? I always, I told my mom, I don't like change, but my mom is like, for somebody who doesn't like change, you love your country, you live a comfortable job and you just keep changing. I don't know, you don't like job change, or you are afraid of change, but you still go for it. So I don't know.
Jen Porter (35:38)
Well, change is not easy, but it's as if you understand that the change is required in order for you to get to the next level of where you really want to be.
Ale Spray (35:48)
Changes is stepping out of that comfort zone is really where the growth happens. Sometimes the scary they change, the bigger growth, right? Sometimes the change is not always in this positive, but it provides you that you step out of that box, right? And I told, I do presentation and I told people when you step out of that comfort zone, when you become more confident, that's little side effects, right? Your wings expand.
your box that everybody's trying to feed you and you don't fit in that one. You look at things differently. Sometimes leadership can be lonely. Sometimes people will take you as a little too cocky. That's why I say, just be mindful of the side effects, right? You're going to experience all this stuff. It is not a bad thing, but it's not always easy. And I say the change doesn't have to be too radical. Sometimes it's just a little outside of that comfort zone to challenge yourself.
Jen Porter (36:35)
Yeah.
Ale Spray (36:47)
to remember what you're made of, to remember where you're coming from, to remember those people that are believing in you, right? And to amuse those that don't believe in you too.
Jen Porter (36:59)
Say more about that. What do mean?
Ale Spray (37:02)
You know, we tend to say thank you to people that support me. Thank you to the people that believe in me. I have learned that sometimes my grow, my journey has been more because of the people that don't believe in me. They're the ones that she's not going to make it or she's overqualified or she's overrated because I have heard that, you're overrated. So I thank those ones because they the ones that
It's like you call it, they put the fire under my chair or what we say, hold my beer and watch me do it. So it's those critics or non-believers that I say for those don't believe in me, just watch me. Just watch me.
Jen Porter (37:46)
Yeah, there's a part of you that really wants to prove yourself or it's like you get energy and fuel from the negative, the unbelief and then you push through that. That's remarkable. I don't think I've ever thanked anybody who was against me.
Ale Spray (38:04)
I mean,
I don't go my way to go and say thank you, but you know, I think I use it and I have posted in my social media when there's recognition. Thank you to those that really, really thank you to those who don't believe because they keep pushing me and those boundaries and those scary songs on that change or that. Can I do it? Yes, I can do it right. Not always goes right. It's not saying everything has been perfect.
Jen Porter (38:10)
But you use it. You use it.
Ale Spray (38:35)
But there's a lesson learned. There's a grow that happened in you.
Jen Porter (38:39)
You know, in the stories that I'm gathering from women, both in the podcast and in the book, there's the commonality that I'm seeing is that the women who are, have done amazing things, they faced a lot of resistance. There was a lot of people that in their life said, you can't do this. You're not going to succeed. There was some sort of, either whether it was people or a systems that held them back and they,
through that, that there's something important about our, the resistance that we move through that becomes a big, big part of our story. In fact, we need the resistance.
Ale Spray (39:16)
Yeah.
for me. It's needed.
It's in the system because even when I was on the board, I told my board, everybody agrees with me, this is not even interesting, right? You have to find those naysayers and I had those naysayers, right? And now we have become good friends and they're like, some of them have even say, sorry, I was that hard on you, but I say, no, you were my best master, right? You were the best teacher. So thank you for that.
And I have said it to some of them, like, no, thank you, because literally what doesn't kill you make you stronger and not fun. But, you know, the other element for me is I'm a Latina, I'm a woman of color in an industry that you don't see that or see more women. But I see more women, white women doing it, which I applaud and I celebrate them. But there's not many Latinas. There's not many Latinas because we're told we're too loud, we're too passionate.
We're too outspoken. I haven't told that. And it's about me looking around like, what's the next Latina? What is the next, and not next Ale, because it's not about doing something the same as the other person. What is the next Latina that is going to keep shaking the status quo, that is going to be asking those questions, right? And I'm seeing it too.
Jen Porter (40:41)
So I do want to hear about how you are helping to elevate future leaders. But first, how did you push through the boundary to get where you are today as the president and CEO?
Ale Spray (40:53)
You know, it was interesting because the role was actually an executive director, right? So they approached me and said, we're looking for an executive director. So when I came to the negotiation table, said, yeah, but I'm not coming in as executive director. I'm coming as a CEO president. And the response was like, we have never had one. I'm like, well, then it's better. I will be the first one then. And when they asked me why,
I gave them a really like a sheet of reasons why. And mostly I say because the organization deserves that too. After 35 years that they serve a leader like that. And I say, look around the industry, all the roles in accepted trade associations and construction, some of them held by men, most of them by men, they have the CEO president role. And I say, so if you want me to come in that room and have my voice be heard, the title matters.
Right. And I have heard people saying, why do women hold too much into titles? I, my response like, okay, can I have your title then? And there are ways like, no, I have worked for that. I'm like, we work for that too. So the title is a recognition because I'm tired to carry my resume with me in every meeting to prove that I have what it takes. So I told when I was negotiating, the first thing I'm going to ask is the title. If you guys are not open to that.
they were not a match. Second, negotiating your salary, negotiating other stuff, right? So it was interesting because a couple of days later they came back and said, yep, we're going to give you the title. So I was like, oh, okay, I got what I wanted. So, okay, now what I do.
Jen Porter (42:36)
So what gave you the confidence to ask for those things? The title, the benefits, the compensation, there were several things that you negotiated.
Ale Spray (42:45)
Because it was interesting, think they didn't feel the person that was doing the negotiation when I asked him, why should I want this role? I have a job in a corporate doing work, doing good. And he gave me five reasons. First, you know this industry better than anybody. You have been around for many years in this industry and in the association too. You have held different roles in the association, so you know this. You're passionate about our industry. You're passionate about women supporting women minority businesses. That's what gets you.
And the last and most compelling reason is that whoever we hire, you're not going to be happy with it. So just spare yourself the anger and just take the job.
Jen Porter (43:24)
Well, you had proven yourself over a couple of
Ale Spray (43:28)
I've proven myself
because all the things like your name is well respected. People know who you are. You have proven that you're true to what you say and what you do. You have to be an advocate for diverse companies and not just diverse entrepreneurs, but also for diverse workforce. want more women. We want more women of color. We want more people of color in roles in manager position and supervising roles. So I have built this brand on me that is true and authentic.
It took 20 years to do that. And it came organically. It's not like, like you say, I went to school and say, one year, one day I'm going to be the president of an organization advocating for more inclusion and equity. It just came organically. What I was doing, what I was saying, how I was acting, everything aligned. So people knew this and connecting people, connecting opportunities. So they say, you bring this. So when they say, yes, I bring this and I bring a little more, let me remind you other stuff.
But by the way, bringing all this package comes with this title because I know my male counterparts, they come with that argument. So why I'm not going to advocate for me in that same argument, say, I'm coming this. Yeah.
Jen Porter (44:45)
It's as if your faithfulness over the course of your entire career had led you to this place of being trusted as a leader, for them to recruit you and say, come and do this work here now.
Ale Spray (44:54)
Mm-hmm.
This work, is, and you know, right away I had to think about it as a nonprofit. So it's a different dynamic. And I say, this is scary. I have never done it. I'm going to have to step back in some things too. have to have some compensation, even though it's a good compensation, is different as a nonprofit than a corporate, right? But that's when I say there's that book called The Halftime, right? The 50, like a football game.
The first half you worry about scoring and making as much progress in the scoreboard on the place and everything. And then you go in the halftime and you have to think what is the next half of your game going to look like. So is this book about we have our place, we have a reputation, we have all that we have achieved. And then halftime, now when you're looking at your next halftime of the game, it's about giving it back. It's about making that impact. It's about leaving a legacy.
Jen Porter (45:57)
That's right.
Ale Spray (45:59)
So with all these gifts, with all these opportunities, with all these opportunities that I bring with me, how I can make that impact, right? How if I'm run by a bus next morning and if my spirit is leaving my body, I will look back and I say, she did something, she make an impact, right?
Jen Porter (46:18)
Yeah. I want
to share with the listeners what you're referring to, because I'm very familiar with half time and the half time Institute. I believe that the author is Bob Buford. Does that sound right? And it's this concept that the first half of our lives and our careers are spent trying to prove ourselves, trying to get the title and the compensation and prove our value. It's a lot about ego.
Richard Rohr talks about this concept too, like first half of life, second half of life. then we, some, not everybody, but, and it doesn't, it's not age dependent, but there are times where we can wake up. We can wake up to a new way of seeing life and we lay our ego down for the most part. And we look more at this legacy.
Ale Spray (46:45)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (47:13)
What do we want to, what's the impact that we want to have with our lives? How do we want to make the world better because of our existence in it? How do we want to help others? And that's what, that's what you're living in is impact and legacy, helping to elevate others. So what are you most passionate about when it comes to helping others?
Ale Spray (47:17)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
that legacy for me, I have two kids, right? My young daughter Nicole, she's a 20 year old, my son Alexander, is for them to see as Latinos that we have a place in this country. For her, she might not pursue construction, but for her to know that my mom was breaking the ground for more women to have that voice. I'm passionate for more Latinas, more women of color to explore those.
STEM career science, technology, engineering, math. And because we, I see it in middle school as a young woman that you feel like you're so good at math. You feel like I cannot be good at math because the boys will not like me or they will think I'm a nerd. But it's for me, I'm involved in the STEM non-profit board because it's empowering those girls. It's again, just because I didn't have the opportunity to have a mentor or somebody cheering on me from middle school, high school, college.
doesn't mean that I want the same thing for the future generations. I want more Latinas in supervision manager roles. I want to see more Latinos following the potential of we are a lot of Latinos in construction. And it's good to have them in all levels of capacity. It's the representation. It's just to say we are here as a population. We're here as contributing. I don't want to be one of the few Latinas in construction. I want to build more Latinas.
more Latinos into construction and the leaders for their team, for their companies as entrepreneurs. So that is my passion. That's what I'm driving. And today I say to people, I have the dream job is combining my how and my why together in that little spot. And I know I'm fortunate to have that. I'm blessed to have that opportunity because not everybody gets to do that.
Jen Porter (49:17)
Yeah.
Incredible. What an incredible journey that you've been on. So what's next for you? What's your future vision of what could be?
Ale Spray (49:33)
When I was president of the board, chair of the board, and I was finishing my term, we created a women in leadership group within HCC. Companies have women resource group that we sell for small businesses, they don't have the capacity. So we created a women in leadership and that group is growing and hosting events and giving back. We have an event and we host a hundred plus people and talk about mentorship, sponsorship. So that is my baby number one. I'm proud.
Now seeing the co-chairs leading that committee, they lead it for two years and when they start, when they end, they're different. They're different leaders. They're confident. They're strong women. And I just love watching every co-chair coming into that experience. So that's baby one. And I know already has the legs and moving along. The next baby is creating this another committee, another group of young Latino professionals in construction.
There's a lot of groups called young professionals in different organizations, but I don't see many focus in Latinos. And we have our culture, we have our heritage, we have how we show up at work, how we will raise that influence, how we show up as leaders. So I'm going to create, along with other people in the organization, young leaders, that they will help me put a face and arms and legs to this baby to create a legacy.
that the founders of this organization ambition not only as entrepreneurs, but give opportunity to people because some of these are first generations. Some of them, they're managers that their parents have not been in that position. Some of them, they just need a sponsor to believe in them. Some of them, they just need to be in the right room. Some of them, they just need a voice to represent them. So it's creating that community, that group of professionals to grow my Latinos and they will pay for.
they will continue to grow and bring more Latinos because it's about paying it forward. You will do it? Yeah.
Jen Porter (51:31)
And what do you imagine
the impact will be?
Ale Spray (51:35)
because when people tell me I want to grow more Latinos, but I don't know where they are here, this here's your time for and for them to come and negotiate, not always a check, negotiate and negotiate, continue education, negotiate a title to feel confident to say, I know what I know. And I'm proud of my heritage and my culture. the way my grandma raised me up, don't brag about your accomplishments. Stay quiet. Don't make trouble.
that doesn't fly in this environment. We have to make the noise, the good noise and advocate for others. And again, the pay it for is the key.
Jen Porter (52:12)
And
who else do you need to come alongside you with this vision to make it come to fruition?
Ale Spray (52:20)
well, we call it the old guard of all the older board members, some of them Hispanic, right? Some of the naysayers that I have that I'm going to bring back and say, for your money where your mouth is and help me and we're going to do this is going to be between a combination of young professionals that I know who they are and they want that is a combination of more seasoned professionals than asking me what we need to do is bring them together.
And it's a collaboration. It's not a me project. It's a collaboration. But again, it's those ones saying, where are they? Managers from companies, here they are. How are you going to help them have a mentor? How they will have a sponsor? In the industry, I have seen for women a little reality that I want to hopefully people help me disprove saying, men get promoted by potential. Women get promoted by results.
So I want to make sure that the women get promoted also by the potential that people see in them. Yeah.
Jen Porter (53:23)
Yeah.
And how will you feel when you've accomplished that goal? When you've birthed that baby.
Ale Spray (53:29)
when
I see that baby with the first meeting, it's again that impact. And mostly of what the impact it will make in the people leading this effort. Because this is way somebody believe in me, I'm believing in them, and I'm giving them a task to take it and make it their own. And just seeing them the same way with the co-chairs of my woman leadership, just seeing how they become the leaders they're meant to be.
the environment, the corporations, the companies, or the next nonprofit, or maybe the next HCC person, somebody that will replace me comes from that group too. That's what I want to see.
Jen Porter (54:09)
Yeah,
that'd be amazing. Amazing. I can't wait to see it with you.
Ale Spray (54:13)
Yeah.
I'm excited. Yeah.
Jen Porter (54:17)
So what would you tell women and girls who have that fire inside of them, they haven't maybe fully stepped into their lioness energy and maybe it's really hard for them right now to be brave in the places that they are. What advice would you have?
Ale Spray (54:37)
Well, you know, it's always about the confidence, right? When people tell me, well, you're confident because you have been here 20 years. No, confidence doesn't come because of the tenure. It comes about believing in yourself, believing what you know, but also believing what you don't know and have to ask for that, right? You don't have all the answers, but knowing that you're coming with that perspective, I don't know, but I need to ask. It's also be brave to ask for that mentor, for that sponsor. I need you to help me.
I want you to represent my voice in there. And for some of them, you will see the company is not providing it. So you will have to make that evaluation. Do you want to stay in that company that even when you ask, they don't do it. Well, you have to make the hard decision of, need to explore and find something that will provide that value to me because it can be deflating being hitting your head against the wall over and over and then only hurt you. Right. Imposter syndrome is real.
I acknowledge that I really don't like that term because it's another layer or another way that we put in women saying, you might have imposter syndrome. And I also tell people it's because we have in having, it's a side effect of the notion of fake it until you make it, right? Don't fake it. Because when you feel like I'm going to fake it, when you make it, you're always questioning, I make it because I fake it or because it's me? So that's what the imposter syndrome comes for me.
Jen Porter (56:04)
Yeah.
Ale Spray (56:04)
So
there's a great book I read, Michelle Pollard, she says, believe it until you become it, when you're addressing your fears. And just believe what you have, what you offer to a company. You have something to offer, no matter your age, no matter your tenure in an industry, you have something to offer. And sometimes the nose are the blessing because it opens the opportunities to how am gonna do it? And the other thing is,
Jen Porter (56:11)
Yes. Yes.
Ale Spray (56:30)
In manual, my mentor always told me, Ale, you can have all the ideas, but I have 100 employees with 100 ideas. I need ideas to help the business stay open as a business, the business to help people have a job. So if you have an idea, have that idea, how that is going to make a business case for you, for your company, for your own business, because at the end you have to make money. You have to be profitable in order to provide for other people.
Jen Porter (56:44)
Yeah.
Thank you.
Ale Spray (56:59)
Your ideas are great. Just tailor them of how makes your team, your organization yourself also that stronger.
Jen Porter (57:07)
Yeah, they have to be ideas that could be integrated into the business. You know, I thinking about what you said about being, asking for a mentor. And I'm thinking, well, someone would have to believe in themselves in order to ask for the help. Because otherwise, why would it matter?
Ale Spray (57:10)
Mm-hmm.
Jen Porter (57:31)
Right, so I think it takes confidence and it is brave to ask for the things that we need along our journey. Those are the brave steps and then we can't control the outcome, but we can ask. We can, you know, connect with the people that can help us on our path.
Ale Spray (57:32)
Mm-hmm.
I mean.
You know, the hardest thing is to ask because you're afraid of the notes, right? But I always tell my kids, ask, what's the worst that can happen? They tell you, no, at least you have an answer. What's the best that can happen? They say, yes, thank you for asking. Right. But at the same time, be intentional. I say, find your mentors, but pre-qualify your sponsors. Right. You have to find that mentor that the mentor is kind of relatively not so hard. They tell you what to do, how to do it and everything.
Jen Porter (57:55)
Mm-hmm.
That's right.
Ale Spray (58:17)
The sponsor is the hard one because it's the one you're saying, put my name in there. Put your hand, believe in me and put your name behind my name. And that's also a challenging one. It's a scary one for a sponsor too, right? But you have to, that's what I say, pre-qualify your sponsor. See if they have done it for somebody else. See what rooms are they in. See what connections they have. See what opportunities, because not everything aligns and it's like a
It's like a dating is there's no chemistry in that's okay. But you have to find that mentor because we live with the mentors get so much also from the mentees is a two way and they feel like, they're giving their time. They're giving their time, but they're learning from you. They're learning a different perspective. If it's a smart mentor, they will learn different things. So it's a relationship that both end winning and the sponsor too, because they see that person and it's an advocate and you feel like you're making an impact.
Jen Porter (58:47)
That's right.
Yes, that's right.
Ale Spray (59:14)
So it's scary, but nobody is going to make it for you. Nobody's going to come and say, I want to mentor you. Sometimes they will. Sometimes they just say, because they don't want to make the assumption that you need to be mentor. But you have to ask and be prepared. If they say no, say thank you very much. I appreciate you considering it. And you move on. Move on.
Jen Porter (59:20)
Mm-hmm.
on. Yeah,
such good words of wisdom. Well, you are making an impact. I love watching everything that you're doing and I'm cheering you on. I can't wait for your next baby to be born. See it.
Ale Spray (59:38)
Thank you.
I want
to congratulate you because you have been brave too. We have been in this journey also. You have kept me up to date on why it has been your journey. And sometimes it's like we pass, you take a right turn, a left turn, but you're also being brave because you're taking and saying, maybe that's not what I needed to go. So I'm refocusing. So kudos to you. I applaud you. I admire you because talent is...
Jen Porter (1:00:09)
Thank you.
Ale Spray (1:00:13)
Not easy to tell a it's hard to say no to you. But it's also your story that is inspiring, right? And we all have stories, but you're giving us the outlet to share our stories. So thank you.
Jen Porter (1:00:20)
You
Thank you and you have encouraged me to keep my story involved and that, you the story is coming both on the podcast and in the book. So, and you know, what I do is it is so deeply meaningful. It's so impactful and it is an honor and a joy to get to do this work every day. I, like you, I pinch myself that I get to do this work. And so,
Ale Spray (1:00:36)
And that's
Jen Porter (1:00:50)
For those of you that want to learn more about the work inside the Lioness community, go to jenportercoach.com. You can learn more about the group and the one-on-one experiences and just what it is to be brave together because the collective bravery, you know, it gives us strength and energy to keep going on those really hard days or in those hard seasons. So, Ale thank you for your time. Thank you so much. And until the next episode, the Lioness in me sees the Lioness in you.
Ale Spray (1:01:11)
Thank you.
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