Lioness Conversations: Brave Stories of Women Leaders & Female Founders | Women leading with confidence, empowerment, entrepreneurship, innovation, impact

Jen Porter (00:00)
Hey, lioness, welcome to the show, Lioness Conversations, where we help women be brave, to lead with confidence and joy, and to find your path to the most meaningful work of your life. I'm Jen Porter, leadership and empowerment coach for ambitious and heart-centered women. Today, I have a very special guest, Trish McCall, founder of Wild Haven. Trish is a nurse, athlete, fitness coach,

turned entrepreneur and trauma therapy guide. Trish, welcome to the show.

Trish McCall (00:35)
Hello, thank you. This is an honor. I'm excited about both.

Jen Porter (00:39)
So Trish, you and I know each other from way back. We actually grew up together in the same little town, same schools. We played softball together and we lost touch over the years and a lot of life has happened in those decades. And we reconnected because we have a shared passion. We have a lot of similarities around our calling, what we feel like we're made for.

and how we want to serve in this world. So some of those themes are the lion, roaring, the butterfly and the metamorphosis that a butterfly goes through. There were so many connections that were happening when we came back together. And the tree, the tree means so much to me, yes. So I'm so excited to have this conversation with you.

Trish McCall (01:13)
Definitely.

between.

Me too. I am floored at just all of the aligning and alliances, I guess you could say.

Jen Porter (01:40)
Mm-hmm. Yeah,

it really is remarkable. you know, the direction that you've taken is different than mine. Mine is more, you know, helping professional women become leaders and, you know, move into the calling that they're made for professionally in their work. And you are serving people who are recovering, healing, renewing, restoring. You are all about health and wholeness.

through a different means, right? Through therapy, through yoga. Yeah, definitely, definitely. So Wild Haven, tell us about what Wild Haven is and what's happening on the inside of Wild Haven right now.

Trish McCall (02:12)
Yes, I see it's very complimentary to your profession, you know, so, yeah.

Okay, immediately I'm thinking of all the metamorphosis that, you know, that butterfly represents and Wild Haven. So, but as for right now, currently, we just launched our Wild Haven Warrior membership, which really allows people, the whole point of Wild Haven is to be accessible to trauma survivors. And we know...

through multiple studies now in science and all that is that everyone has trauma of some sort. We tend to focus more on those who may have already done some work, but are looking for a lifestyle of hope and healing and wellness. And so we really want to come around them, support them with a community of peers who've also, you know, different kinds of trauma, but all.

kind of coming around each other and helping them to move through the trauma into a lifestyle of there's five facets, I say to health, of the spiritual, the physical, the mental, the emotional, and also the relational. All of those impact our whole lives, not just.

personal but also professional and stuff and so it's complementary to that to help people move in that direction.

Jen Porter (03:55)
So how are you helping these trauma survivors? What does that experience look like if they're partnering with you in Wild Haven?

Trish McCall (04:03)
Okay, well we actually bought a hundred acres of mountain land in the Blue Ridge Mountains and so it very much involves everything involves nature because nature is wild and free and yet it has rhythms to it and so we always kind of point back we know that nature heals forest we have forests and streams we have two streams so just bringing people back

to nature, focusing on nutrition, as well as mindful movement. So I lead groups called Hiking to Heal. We have retreats here on the land, or I can go to where others are, where I need to be. And then, like I said, right now I work in a studio, and so I offer live online or in person, but also we record those so that if they can't make it,

We know as with a lot of trauma survivors in fight, flight, freeze modes, aren't ready to be in groups necessarily or even live. And so we have replaced a whole what I call the growing library for them to access on their own at any time, anywhere. And there's an app for that even. But yeah, we just want to reach them where they are, meet them where they are.

Jen Porter (05:22)
Wow.

What's happening in the studio? Is this yoga sessions? Is this, what is this?

Trish McCall (05:33)
So I am a yoga therapist and so I work, know, trauma manifests itself in chronic pain or dis-ease that becomes disease oftentimes. So we work in very small groups, eight to 12 people max in the studio for people who are trying to rewire the nervous system is what I say. So it really gets into the neuroscience, but I can get very nerdy about that and stuff.

But when we're in a class session, it's really just taking a trauma-sensitive approach where I never touch anyone. sometimes use music, but we're very mindful that music can also be a trigger for some people. Smells can be a trigger. So we just create that brave, safe space in the studio so that we can move and we move through postures.

that help to release trauma in a safe and gentle manner.

Jen Porter (06:38)
And how are you connecting with these trauma survivors? How do they know that this is available?

Trish McCall (06:45)
Okay, we have word of mouth, of course. I love that. Even myself when I hear someone else is enjoying something or getting some value out of it, I want to go there, right? So word of mouth, but also we have a website, but Facebook market, Facebook business. I have a Facebook business page, Wild Haven and Co. And so people find me there.

And then I try to be involved in different groups that I know are dealing with trauma survivors and such. So foster adoptive families, I'm connected within the community to various social services, I'll say as well.

Jen Porter (07:33)
And how much of your nursing background caused this to come up for you? What did you see in your work experience as a nurse that made you realize this may be a big problem that people need resources for?

Trish McCall (07:51)
You know, I grew up wanting to be in the medical field. I thought I would be a heart or brain surgeon. So I kind of laughed because now am a heart and brain surgeon of a different kind. So I wanted to be a nurse. And I think this actually just to back it up, I have my own childhood trauma and stuff. And so I think innately, I wanted to help others to heal and live life fully.

Jen Porter (08:01)
Hmm.

Trish McCall (08:20)
and thriving. And so then when I became a nurse, I worked in the NICU was my first experience. Now looking back hindsight 2020, I realized I worked in a very low income area and there were plenty of gangs. And actually part of being a gang member was how many and held for rank up was how many babies you had. So I now look back and like that was a form of trafficking.

We had multiple issues in the NICU and stuff with multiple children from one gang member and stuff. you know, that was kind of an alert, I guess, but I didn't realize what it was. And then becoming a nurse, I was a manager, a nurse manager at crisis pregnancy center. And so then again, I was told, that's not happening. I'd just gotten...

news that Charlotte was a hub, I guess you could say, for anti-trafficking or for trafficking. And I was like, well, is it here? within five days of putting up a poster on the back of a bathroom wall, seven of them were torn off. And I was like, we have an issue for the hotline.

Jen Porter (09:43)
And that was

people needing help that were being trafficked.

Trish McCall (09:48)
Yes, yeah.

And then I was personally involved in helping to rescue and relocate some traffic survivors and stuff. a lot of people don't realize it's mostly actually in families that this is occurring, or at least someone that they know, that they never would have imagined that happening. Yeah.

Jen Porter (09:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Wow. So when did you decide that you wanted to get involved in supporting trauma survivors? I mean, you were doing it in your career already. What happened that caused you to make this transition into starting your own thing?

Trish McCall (10:21)
Yes.

There's a series of things and I will just say my own story. So I ended up a nurse, even a CrossFit coach, and I ended up with 19 medical diagnoses, both mental and physical, and five surgeries, and I can't even tell you how many medications. And I was at a loss. I was like, I'm doing all the right things. I'm doing, I'm a health.

You know, I'm a nurse, one, I'm in the healthcare field. I'm a CrossFit coach, I'm a health coach. So nutrition was a big thing. I was teaching children, you know, how to be healthy so they could be healthy adults. So I just remember being in the shower floor. Like there's just got to be a different way, a better way. And through different people, a personal trainer slash

She was a personal trainer who had come out of physical therapy because she didn't want to be limited by insurance on what she could help with and stuff. So that was one start. And then I went to a yoga retreat to support a friend of mine. I'd been doing yoga as exercise, right? So, but I went with a friend to a yoga retreat. I was there for her and did not know that the leader or the instructor was a yoga therapist.

And she saw, I say, into me. She saw through me. And at one point, very gently, kindly, not in front of anyone, was just telling me, you know, you're making your body do what it doesn't want to do. And just because it can doesn't mean it should. And at that same time, the personal trainer I was working with, so all of this is kind of together, but I got on a treadmill and my heart rate went from 60 to 150.

Jen Porter (12:01)
you

Trish McCall (12:26)
within just a minute to two minutes of starting to jog. I wasn't even at a full run and I'm an athlete, right? So she turned the machine off and said, trauma much? So she was familiar. Yeah, so she was familiar, the yoga therapist.

Jen Porter (12:40)
Wow.

Why

was that a sign Trish? Why was that a sign of trauma?

Trish McCall (12:49)
I came to learn that the body keeps the score. And so whenever we are holding on to whatever it is that is creating, I call dis-ease, will eventually manifest itself into disease. so, exactly, exactly. And the heart, especially the gut, the heart, are all...

Jen Porter (13:07)
Mm-hmm. The physical manifestation of the sickness. Yeah.

Trish McCall (13:19)
great indicators of when fight, flight, freeze kicks in. And you don't have control over that per se, or at least I didn't think I did. And that is actually where yoga came into play and learning how to, the power of the breath, the power of the mind and the power of the spirit. So in order to rewire that nervous system that learned fight, flight, freeze.

Jen Porter (13:28)
Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (13:49)
And

Jen Porter (13:49)
So it's an

unlearning of, you said a rewiring, it's a rewiring of the nervous system.

Trish McCall (13:58)
Exactly, So just like a road, if you road on a road, it's going to create ruts. And so sometimes at first getting out of that rut is hard, but it's not impossible. And then once you do, you create a new pathway, right? To the brain and stuff. And a lot of people don't realize 80 % of our nervous system is actually transferring up to the brain, from the body to the brain.

Jen Porter (14:09)
sure.

Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (14:24)
So sometimes, and I'm not knocking talk therapy. So I 100 % think the two of them compliment one another. right, so I'm an advocate for talk therapy. Still have my moments that I go as myself. But I learned that some things you can't unlock through your thinking brain, it's locked into those unconscious parts of your brain.

Jen Porter (14:40)
Mm-hmm.

That's true. That's right.

I've had experience with both with talk therapy, counseling, and still do because there's all kinds of things that we need support in, but also the somatic experiencing work. And that the outcome of that helped me in ways that everything else that I tried did not.

Trish McCall (15:01)
Yes.

Jen Porter (15:14)
And I learned things through that experiencing that are still able to help me cope when I'm triggered. Now, when I do have a trauma response, I have learned some tools through that that absolutely helped me. And it's remarkable. So powerful.

Trish McCall (15:24)
Yes.

And I'm glad that you mentioned

the somatic piece because I don't think a lot of people are familiar with it, but somatic just means bringing your senses back to you, really. We lose exactly.

Jen Porter (15:47)
And connecting with the body, right? Cause

you're often cut off. don't even, we're not paying attention to what's happening in the rest of us. We're just very, we're trained to just stay in our heads.

Trish McCall (15:55)
Yes.

Yes, so we react rather than respond, choosing a response. so that's what I love about the, so somatic work is definitely a part of the trauma sensitive approach that we take. So we want to make sure that people learn to, I say love themselves back to life, is getting to know themselves and coming to love.

themselves again and being loved. because we we and we can't love others as ourselves if we don't love ourselves. So exactly.

Jen Porter (16:38)
That's so true. We just don't have it to give if we haven't

done the work. I have this belief that we have a responsibility to be healed. We have a responsibility to the extent that we can to try to get to a place of healing because the world needs us to be as whole as possible. We don't ever arrive.

Trish McCall (16:58)
Yes, and I love, yes. Yes.

Jen Porter (17:08)
But if I haven't done my work, then it will spew out in relationships, in life, and work. And so I just have this strong belief that we are responsible to our fellow citizens in this world to do our own work so that we have more to give.

Trish McCall (17:32)
And I just, focus, when you said healing and I heard the accentuation of the ing and I, that, that so resonates because that's what I tell people. We are always in the process of becoming, of healing. So it is an ing at all times. And that's what love. It's about progress, not perfection. And so as long as we're progressing, growing, I say stretching, then we,

Jen Porter (17:53)
Hmm.

Trish McCall (18:01)
we are healing. And I think that's really hard for people. It was for me, because I always thought I need to be healed. I've done all this work, why I'm not there yet. But it's really a process of doing that.

Jen Porter (18:15)
It's frustrating,

isn't it? The process of healing is really frustrating. And in my experience, my own expectations of being done with, because I did put in so much work. It's like, I thought I made all the investments that I needed to make in order to get to a place. And then when it shows up again, it's really frustrating and it's deflating because I thought I was further along in that healing journey. But the truth is we're just.

We're so human, you know?

Trish McCall (18:46)
Yes.

Well, and you are further along because by recognizing it, that's growth. Because before you didn't recognize it as an issue. Right. So to be able to go, that's I noticed that. Then that is growth, because before we would have or at least I would have masked it, stuffed it, any weakness, any, that that wasn't perfect, that people pleasing perfectionism.

Jen Porter (18:53)
Mmm.

huh.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Trish McCall (19:15)
then I would live my life.

Jen Porter (19:17)
I can't help but think about when you, cause you and I grew up at the same time, right? We're at the same age and, I can remember, I'm sure you heard it too, that practice makes perfect. That was the mantra of our era, right? And I'm sure for multiple generations. That's right. That's right. And so, and so there was this expectation that, that that's the standard.

Trish McCall (19:29)
yeah.

Yes. And no pain, no gain. No pain, no gain. Practice is perfect. Absolutely.

Jen Porter (19:42)
The standard should always be not even just excellence, but perfection that we could somehow get there. And, and I just have heard in the last several years, the new mantra, which is practice makes progress. Is that what it is? Practice makes progress. And it was like, I love that so much more. Practice makes progress and progress is a beautiful thing.

Trish McCall (19:56)
Yes, practice makes sense. Yes, we can breathe.

Exactly. I mean, that's what we're that is what we're seeking, right? Is progress is, I say, from glory to glory or from step to step, you know, that we're not looking to jump six steps or whatever, but step by step. That's how we progress. So I love.

Jen Porter (20:22)
Yeah.

And that takes,

it reminds me of the tree as well. There was someone I was talking to in a couple episodes ago that talked about seeds versus trees and how we want to be the full blown, you know, in our full glory tree, but we have to start with seeds. But there's so much patience that's required in growth because there's so many stages and we have to be kind to ourselves.

Trish McCall (20:49)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (20:53)
and patient with ourselves in that evolution in those, through those phases.

Trish McCall (20:56)
And I'm sure you've heard,

and if you know anything about seeds, they have to be buried and they have to be broken open in order for it to even get rooted enough to get the strength to push through the ground and stuff. so I'm like, that's such a metaphor for, yeah, for us, for life.

Jen Porter (21:03)
Mm-hmm.

such an

What is the difference between in yoga, the difference between a yoga instructor and a yoga therapist?

Trish McCall (21:29)
Okay. So a yoga instructor has to have a minimum of 200 hours to even start classes and they do a general take on classes. So rather than a specialty usually and then a yoga therapist. So I, yoga therapist has to have a minimum of 800 hours and

then they take typically a special focus. And it typically has to do with some medical or specific issue, I guess you could say. So mine is trauma. And by being a nurse, too, being able to

Jen Porter (22:21)
Okay.

Trish McCall (22:27)
understand more of the mechanisms, I guess. Although I will say, okay, so I was trained through yoga faith. And I will be honest, it was, I was more excited about that certification than my nursing degree. I, it was so intense and so evidence-based and so whole. That's all I want to say.

Jen Porter (22:54)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (22:55)
and holistic that this truly those five facets that I talked about, you know, we deep dive into each one of those as a yoga therapist through that yoga therapy training program. I've never had anything like it. And so anyway, my hope is that we will get that approved by the American Medical Board so that we can get CEs and stuff like that through it as well. Because it, we have Dr. Bessel Vanderkult.

Jen Porter (23:20)
Okay.

Trish McCall (23:25)
Dr. Caroline Leath, neuroscientists, psychologists, physicians that we are actually trained by in it. So anyways, I say that just because this is, I believe, the new healthcare, the true healthcare.

Jen Porter (23:36)
Mm-hmm.

Really?

Okay, so tell me more about that. I've done yoga for 30 years and it's really about movement for me more than anything. I love hot yoga. I love the intensity of it. It feels like a detox or, you know, and a massage all in one. And I don't think I've gotten the full...

Trish McCall (24:04)
it was.

Jen Porter (24:12)
scope of benefits that I could from yoga. And maybe other people feel that way too. know, yoga got, was really popular and everybody's carrying around their yoga mats and things like that. But, but it's, you're talking about something much more profound than an exercise class. So what, what are the potential outcomes of yoga when they're, when we're doing it for more therapeutic reasons?

Trish McCall (24:21)
Not yet.

So, wow, that is big. That's big. Because I almost feel like I've had people literally, I can talk to them and talk to them, but until they experience it, it's hard to put into words. yoga in and of itself, Sanskrit, means unity. And you hear spirit, mind, body.

but it truly is, I don't know another exercise, I don't know another anything that encompasses what yoga is. The unity, and in my case, so we know unity of the spirit, mind, and body, but with, I say yoga faith or Christ-centered yoga. So I teach secular, but I also teach Christ-centered. That's really what I practice myself as well.

And it's just being able to, I call it practice the postures of prayer with a full heart coming onto our modern day yoga mat or our modern day prayer mat, which is our yoga mat. And so it's inviting the Holy Spirit in and we know that the Holy Spirit is in the business of miracles and work.

and healing that spirit because if we're only approaching our health from a physical aspect, we're really missing a lot with that spiritual aspect because the spirit is where our belief systems develop. And then that belief system becomes a mindset and that mindset then drives the body or what we do, right? And so if we're not addressing the spirit at all, how do you know

Jen Porter (26:27)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (26:32)
what your belief systems are, how do you deal with those and how do you replace the lies? I say the lies that bind to the spirit, mind and body. How do you break those chains without the spirit and the truth and being able to do that? like in yoga, know, like yoga as most people know of it, it's about an affirmation. However, I can say and Dr. Caroline Lee,

speaks to this, I can say I'm beautiful, but do I believe it? If I don't believe it, then I'm actually lying to myself, which creates a dissonance between the mind and the brain. So the mind is different from the brain.

Jen Porter (27:12)
Mm.

Well, I'm with you.

I'm with you and I want to hear more, but I want to... So isn't the theory that if we say it, we will eventually believe it? Isn't that why it's taught to say the mantras?

Trish McCall (27:29)
It

is, it is. And I would highly recommend Dr. Caroline Leaf and following her and she describes this, I say so much better. Yes. L-E-A-S, it's just L-E-A-S. And don't I love that because we talk about the tree all the time. So, Leaf. But she, you know, she talks about how we can create dissonance and I'll just give you an example. So the beautiful thing. So.

Jen Porter (27:40)
And is it L-I-E-F? Is it Caroline? L-E-A-F, like the tree.

Trish McCall (27:58)
If I'm saying I'm beautiful, but I don't really believe it. I'm lying to myself. But what if I say I am

practices that I'm practicing could lead me to a place that I believe I'm beautiful.

Jen Porter (28:15)
Mmm.

Trish McCall (28:17)
then you're not lying. You are doing the things that you hope will come to a place where you believe that you're beautiful. But at least we're saying, or even, now if you're a believer and it says, know, the truths, I guess you could say, rather than saying I say, I can say, well, God says this about me.

Jen Porter (28:26)
Mm.

Yeah.

Trish McCall (28:45)
whatever

that is, whatever. I know Isaiah 61, 3 and now 4 is my life verse. And if I believe that he's in me, then I know he's working through me and he is bringing ashes to beauty. And so beauty on the outside may not mean so much to me, but beauty from the inside does. And to be able to embrace that.

I am a work in progress and I'm still moving from ashes to beauty and he's replacing the joy, the mourning with joy and those kinds of things. I actually, that's the thing about the yoga that I do. I can take that verse and I can actually put movement to it, which means I embody that verse. And so it seeps into every cell, bringing life and ashes to beauty in each and every cell.

Jen Porter (29:31)
Hmm

So we can be transformed by using words and embodying having movement with accompanying the words. We can be transformed by that.

Trish McCall (29:51)
Yes.

Yes. Yes.

Jen Porter (29:55)
What share because not everybody is going to know Isaiah 61. Share that verse. Do you know it? You have it.

Trish McCall (30:02)
Oh, goodness.

So I've meant, I have paraphrased it for so long that I would not be able to, but I call it the ashes to beauty because it is really replacing all of those shame, blame, the things that were lost and stolen, I say. So the three,

Jen Porter (30:10)
That's okay.

Trish McCall (30:32)
specifically, verse three, I love the whole thing, but verse three really spoke, to grant those who mourn in Zion, to give them a beautiful headdress instead of ashes, the oil of gladness instead of mourning, the garment of praise instead of a faint spirit, that they may be called oaks of righteousness, the chastening of the Lord that we may be glorified. Now,

Jen Porter (30:52)
Wow.

Trish McCall (30:57)
This past year, he added four and that goes with where we're going with Wildhaven becoming a nonprofit. I haven't mentioned that, but that they shall build up the ancient ruins. They shall raise up the former devastations. They shall repair the ruined cities, the devastations of many generations. So that's what Wildhaven actually is founded on. That's my life verse. And so he says in his word that we

Jen Porter (31:05)
.

Trish McCall (31:28)
with the Holy Spirit in us will actually do more than even Christ when he was here. And so if he's in me, this means that he has given me the power to do these things as well and to bring healing and to bring hope and healing and to repair former devastations and to impact generations to come. And I truly believe that. And I'll have to tell you because I may sound very,

Jen Porter (31:31)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (31:57)
religious and but I want to say I call it faith now not religious because there was a time actually it was spiritual abuse that I stayed in the abuse that I was in for so long and I actually left the church said if that's who God is I don't want him don't need him I had enough trouble and I felt like he was that

I was told bad things happen to bad people. So therefore, if bad things were happening to me, then I was the bad person. And I spent a lot of years trying to be perfect so that I wouldn't be bad and I would be good enough. And so it really took me leaving and through the process of, I say falling apart, to fall together better and stuff. what...

Jen Porter (32:37)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Trish McCall (32:49)
So I'm also very cognizant when I'm working with people. I do tend to maybe start out more secular, which secular just means taking out the religious piece of it. It's not affiliated with any religion. Yoga is not a religion. A lot of people think that it is, but it's not. And the yoga that we do here in the US tends to be more like actually based on European gymnastics.

Jen Porter (33:18)
Hmm.

Trish McCall (33:18)
like sun

salutations that everyone hears about that's actually from European gymnastics. It was their warm-up routine before gymnastics. anyway, it's all those things that I learned through yoga faith, I just, that's where we come back to the spirit piece of it and healing that without being religious about it.

Jen Porter (33:44)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (33:45)
And that's what yoga is for me. I'm in that messy middle where there's a lot of Christians who don't believe you can do yoga. And then there's a lot of yogis who don't believe that you can be a Christian and do yoga. And I'm here to, I say, reclaim that breath and prayer and movement. Exactly.

Jen Porter (33:55)
Mm-hmm. Hmm.

Yeah. We don't have to limit ourselves. That verse

that you shared has meant a lot to me over the years, that beauty from ashes. And, you know, think we all have times in our life experiences that we've had where things have died. You know, like for me, it was my marriage, my first marriage died. And I remember somebody saying as a way of trying to encourage me, you know, beauty from ashes.

Trish McCall (34:12)
Mm-hmm.

Jen Porter (34:30)
And I was so frustrated when they said that because I thought you just don't understand. You don't understand the depths of devastation and ruins. And it, and it, but, but what I have come to see is it's absolutely true that there is beauty that comes from the ashes, but we have to have this longevity to see.

It's not overnight. It's not even in one season or one year. But when you look across a timeline, you can see that if we do that work of healing and surrender to the healing work, then some beautiful things can emerge even though things have died. Right?

Trish McCall (35:19)
Yes, yes.

And that is exactly somethings like again that tree has to shed its leaves and its seeds and stuff and it has to die to nourish that ground in order for that seed to be planted and a new birth, a new beginning to emerge and...

Jen Porter (35:38)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (35:41)
Yeah, and then there's always, like you said, there's just different, we always compared to the, I guess the onion peel. There's always another layer of healing and stuff. so, and new beginnings each time and stuff. no, I just, I think the long game, that's what people, you said you love hot yoga. Well, what I do isn't necessarily going to be like, that first day.

Jen Porter (35:47)
Yes.

You know, the other thing I'm... Sorry.

That's it.

Trish McCall (36:10)
because it's, I call it a practice because it's practice for the real game, the game of life, right? So you learn and practice breath and then it becomes muscle memory. So when you're in that agitated state or you feel like your chest is about to be crushed or that panic attack is coming on, you have practiced it enough that your body kicks in and says, this is what we need to do right now.

Jen Porter (36:10)
Uh-huh.

Mmm.

So the practice

is on the mat in order to serve us and be available as tools for us off the mat.

Trish McCall (36:45)
Exactly. Exactly.

Jen Porter (36:47)
What

you talked about the long game and even in that verse that you shared from Isaiah 61, it made me think about even longer term than what we're talking about generations. And I was talking with somebody yesterday in the last episode about her vision to impact generations through her work and community. And it's such a beautiful thing. And when we, when we think about beauty from ashes,

Trish McCall (36:59)
Yes.

Jen Porter (37:17)
Ashes from, yeah, beauty from Ashes. I'm saying that right. Our healing is not just for us. It's not just about us. It's about generations to come. It's about this exponential impact of the work that we do today that will impact future generations. I mean, it's really profound.

Trish McCall (37:35)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

What

do children learn from? What do people learn from most? Actions. They can hear your words, but until you're taking action on those words, and that's where this is. If I can teach a teacher, if I can teach a social worker, if I can teach a hospital care provider, if I can teach a parent, they're going to have, because they're there with them more and have an impact to show them to

Jen Porter (37:48)
Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (38:11)
that others can go, wow, thank you, and apply that to their own lives. So that's the mission is kind of to, yes, to take those people. I said, Wildhaven is more about the long game. There's a lot of, you're getting people maybe out of anti-trafficking and they go through all of the rehabilitation and recovery and stuff. But then it's like, well, then what?

those dreams died within them. Once they start to reawaken, where do we go from there? Everybody, I believe, has a dream planted inside of them that was given to them as, know, and it often encompasses what we've been through so that we can speak into that and connect with people and stuff. And that's the whole thing is, then I want to prepare people to be able to take it further and help others so that

Jen Porter (39:07)
Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (39:09)
There's more healing.

Jen Porter (39:12)
You talked about accessibility is one of your values and I'm thinking about

individuals who are experiencing trauma, the effects of trauma really, and whether they've come out of trafficking literally or they've been a human that's lived on this planet who have experienced trauma,

Trish McCall (39:28)
Yes.

Or we just

went through Hurricane Helene hitting in the mountains of western North Carolina. And you know, if you've already got trauma and then you're piling more trauma on top of, you know, devastating, catastrophic.

Jen Porter (39:44)
I didn't see.

Yes, layers

and layers of trauma. But what is it that someone could recognize in themselves that would be a sign? You talked about an arrow or an alert. What are those things that we should be paying attention to to say, maybe I do need some help. Maybe I do need some support and not just keep pushing through every day.

Trish McCall (39:53)
Exactly.

Jen Porter (40:17)
holding on to this mountain of baggage.

Trish McCall (40:20)
You mean before

you fall into the shower floor and cry out like, yeah.

Jen Porter (40:24)
Well, but don't we do that, right? That's,

but here's the thing Trish, is we get up and we just keep going. Like some of us push through, we have those moments in the shower and we keep pushing because we think it's all up to us. We think we're alone in our journey and there's no one else. So we've just got to keep pressing through. So what is it that we should be recognizing about ourselves?

to help us say, if there's a different way?

Trish McCall (40:57)
So I think we also resonate with high, I see it's high functioning. So I was actually told that I had depression, but I had high functioning depression is how they labeled it because I didn't lay in bed. I might have wanted to lay in bed, but no. But what resonates is you work with, so the way that it manifested in me is highly driven, perfectionistic, people pleasing.

Jen Porter (41:25)
Okay, that's a lot. I'm around a lot of those women, yes. And here's, just have to add, we're rewarded for that Trish. We're rewarded for that behavior.

Trish McCall (41:26)
So

Absolutely, absolutely. Yes.

Yeah, exactly. So that actually would be one of the things is are you perfectionistic? Are you a people pleaser? Do you find yourself fighting, fleeing, or even what is not just freezing, but there's a term called fawning that people may not be as familiar with. And that's the people pleasing. Are you doing whatever it takes in order to be liked?

loved, accepted, those kinds of things. Those are kind of the spirit mental things. And then the physical things are really, are you, do you have chronic pain that or chronic autoimmune that has no real, like, where is it coming from? And you can't put you.

Jen Porter (42:17)
Mm.

Trish McCall (42:28)
I can't even tell you, I was told fibromyalgia, was told IBS, I was told all this. And really, when I was able to get my, it all comes down to inflammation. And whether inflammation is coming from, you know, nutrition or stress or those things, they're going to build up in the body. And I typically find it between the ages of 40 and 60 because we've ignored it so long.

The body is an amazing machine. It just keeps on ticking until it doesn't. And so, and then that's when all these, the medical charts start growing and we're like, what in the world? Or suddenly we're doing all the things, like I said, all the right things, but nothing's working. Then.

Jen Porter (43:02)
Yeah.

So you were

in tremendous pain.

Trish McCall (43:20)
yeah, I was dying from the inside out. I had a six pack. I could lift 140 pounds over my head. I was fit, but I was falling apart. I don't want to even tell. mean, like literally 19 medical diagnoses and stuff. My gut was an absolute mess. And as you can see, the heart, so if I'd have gone into the doctor and they took my heart rate or blood pressure, I was great.

Jen Porter (43:46)
you

Trish McCall (43:49)
but no one ever put me on a treadmill and saw my heart rate within a minute go from 60 to 150 as if I was running for my life.

Jen Porter (43:58)
Well, then it makes me think they would have given you a medication, right?

Trish McCall (44:02)
And they would have,

yeah, absolutely, absolutely. No, no, I needed to deal with the trauma that was stored in my body, trapped in my body, really.

Jen Porter (44:04)
that wasn't what you needed.

And so where did you start?

Trish McCall (44:19)
We, did start with talk therapy in complete honesty. And had I known then what I know now, I'd have done yoga probably sooner. And this is, that is actually why I do what I do. So no one will spend 10, 15 years like I did, trying to find all the things. So, and I just, again, this is where I do have to say there's a faith piece to it. And that's where God met me. But that was part of my coming back to Him was

Jen Porter (44:21)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Trish McCall (44:48)
someone introduced me to essential oils and then I went to that retreat and then I went to you know the physical therapist and stuff like that so it's one of those things that it took me too long to realize so this is that shortcut for people like if you realize there things going on for you please reach out to me let's talk about this let's see if this will work for you

Jen Porter (45:05)
Yeah.

Yeah.

What I hear in your story is you were open to following your intuition along that journey because even though it might feel like a really roundabout way of getting to where you are, these were the things you were being led, right? Through the essential oils, through the counselor, through the yoga retreat, thinking you're doing it for a friend. And you were, but it was for you too.

But we're following in a sense those breadcrumbs that can lead us to where we really need to be. And it's all part of the process. And now what you've learned is now you're saying, hey, you don't want people to have to go that roundabout route. There's actually some support mechanisms that you offer that people can just engage. And so I think about

Trish McCall (45:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Jen Porter (46:09)
well, okay. Maybe people are listening to this and they're thinking, I need to find a yoga studio with a yoga therapist. And I'm thinking, actually you offer online courses so they could do it from wherever they are in the world.

Trish McCall (46:20)
Yes.

Exactly, exactly. And what you hit on is I'm trying to get people to start listening again to their bodies, to honor their bodies, their minds, their spirits, the way I say design, they are designed naturally awesome. And that goes all the way down. if you look at it as DNA, design naturally awesome. And so we're looking at your, know, what makes you you and how do you tick so that it

works for you. And that's why, you know, with being trauma sensitive as well, I invite people, I guide people, I do not tell them what to do. I'm not an instructor. That's why I said that. I like that you know what's guiding. So yeah.

Jen Porter (47:03)
Yeah. Yeah, you're not instructing.

You know, I'm thinking about women deal with a lot of shame. Everyone does. Let's be clear. I work with women, so I know women better than I know men. Women are often in a shame cycle that holds them back from living the fullness of life, whatever that means. And you're, you you're an athlete. I'm an athlete. That's, that's just a part of

I live my life and I love it. It's like, it's fun for me to be athletic. But not everybody is at that place of moving their bodies freely and being comfortable in their body, even to go below that line from the head to looking at our bodily experience, because it's painful. can be painful to look and we're not always happy with what we see. And so

How would you, what would you say to women and girls who might be listening and they're, want to lean into some of this, but they feel afraid of being exposed or tapping into really looking at their body.

Trish McCall (48:25)
Yeah.

And I work with, mean that is, and that is what the encouragement, that is, I think I said it earlier, but I want to reiterate is that is why I like that this is accessible to those who don't want to show up live online or in a studio, that they can watch the replays and they're focused on me, not, and they're moving. They're not looking in a mirror. It's not like a gym.

Jen Porter (48:56)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (48:57)
where you might have mirrors or anything. And it's really, like you said, more intuitive and learning to listen to our bodies. But if we're not used to doing that, we start where we are, and that might just be moving. And then I will cue different cues for different people who may, some are kinesthetic, some are, you

hearer, some are word. And so they received that also through the growing library in a way that hopefully feeds them and meets them where they are. But it's just starting. I say if you have one lung, you can do this. You can do yoga. I love someone asked me this and it was like a trivia question. What's one mechanism that your body does that is both

Jen Porter (49:46)
you

Trish McCall (49:57)
automatic and something you can control. There's only two two body systems or parts that you can do that where you can control it and it works automatically.

Any idea?

Jen Porter (50:13)
Well, I'm thinking of the breath. also, I'm like, well, it's not the heart because we can't control the beating of our heart, but what else is it?

Trish McCall (50:18)
It

is a breath while blinking your eyes. So, and there is, there is a trauma approach, a trauma release approach with the eyes that I do with people as well. But the breath, the breath is really the only pure thing that automatically works. And yet we can control it as well. Like we can use it to our own ability. And so,

Jen Porter (50:22)
that's true.

Trish McCall (50:47)
I say, if you have a lung, one, just one lung, we can work with that. Exactly. And that's not looking at a body part. That's not looking at, know, so you just start with breath. You start there. Exactly. And bringing it back to something that simple. And then that's where they start. Rather than the body per se that you were talking about, you know, I have to look at this or I have to be able to move this.

Jen Porter (50:52)
You're breathing.

We all have our breath.

Mm-hmm. That's beautiful.

Yeah.

Trish McCall (51:16)
Well, everybody can move, can breathe, and we can learn to do that together.

Jen Porter (51:19)
everybody can breathe. I

love the simplicity of starting there.

Trish McCall (51:24)
Yes.

Jen Porter (51:26)
So Trish, what are you doing when you're roaring? When you are in your roar, in that confident power, strong, what are you doing?

Trish McCall (51:38)
So when you say that, I think of lion's breath. So that's a yoga term, I guess you could say, it's called lion's breath. And I call it the roar. So our retreats are called restored a roar and we always end with a roar. And so when I'm roaring,

Jen Porter (51:49)
and

Trish McCall (52:01)
It is unlocking, I guess, okay, it's fighting for and unlocking the bond, the bonds on that inner child, that, or, you know, on that child, that adult who felt trapped and bound and stuff. It's when I roar, then I'm fighting for that child to break free, to be wild and free. And so it's...

Jen Porter (52:28)
Mmm.

Trish McCall (52:31)
For those who don't have a voice, it's me being a voice for those who don't have a voice. And because now I have a voice and I'm a lioness and I think this is so cool. Like it does, because I am a child of the lion of Judah and I was made to roar, you know, and now that I have, I don't know if you've seen that picture of the lion.

Jen Porter (52:50)
Yes.

you

Trish McCall (53:00)
behind the little cub or the lioness. And that's the picture I have is I have a provider, I have a protector, and I have the power to again, restore the spirit, renew the mind, rebuild the body and reclaim what has been lost and stolen. Come back to that thriving life that I was built for.

Jen Porter (53:02)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Wow.

That is incredible.

You were made for it made made to roar. Yeah, there's so many women that I work with and that are in my circle. And we're all pursuing our voice, using our voice in new ways that because we all have felt stifled, silenced, trapped in certain ways. And so isn't that a lifetime

journey too of finding our voice.

Trish McCall (53:54)
And

you know, I think of the roar, a lot of people when you say roar, they think of out of control, but it's not. is, yeah, it's that stance of this is who I am, I know who I am, and I know my worth and my value.

Jen Porter (54:00)
Mm-hmm. Now...

That's it, that's it, and it is a posture. Because we can be silent, vocally silent, but still be roaring.

Trish McCall (54:19)
Mm-hmm, exactly.

Jen Porter (54:21)
Yeah,

beautiful. So what's next for Wild Haven? What is your vision for where you want this to go and how you want to help people?

Trish McCall (54:37)
so we are literally just solidified our third board member. And so now we are this week, I'm reaching out to legal counsel to found the nonprofit. And so we are, that that's a lot of the behind the scenes that people, you know, don't get to see and stuff, we. Yes, it is. It is. It's huge.

Jen Porter (54:59)
Congratulations on that. That's a huge step.

Trish McCall (55:07)
And then we are actually constructing our barn dominion, will so during the hurricane, my all of my stuff was wiped out and stuff. So we are building our the interim retreat center wellness center, I guess you could call it on top of the mountain. And we have to be done by summer. But I am we're doing a retreat and our retreats are fundraisers, I guess.

in order for us to what I call take the retreats to the streets. to work away. Just going, like I said, meeting people where they are. A lot of people who are in trauma, especially of domestic violence or sexual violence, abuse, trafficking, foster adoptive families, they can't come to me. So how can I come to them?

Jen Porter (55:43)
What do you mean by that?

Trish McCall (56:05)
And then as I said, how can I go and train others to be able to do what I do so that they can take it into their workplaces or into their families, into their communities to create that generational impact? So that's what we hope to be moving forward, getting mobile and more accessible, but also being a space where people can, I say,

Jen Porter (56:10)
Thanks for that.

Yeah.

Okay, yeah.

Trish McCall (56:34)
break free from the world to come and to our little piece of heaven and enjoy it sitting by the waterfall that we have, going kayaking, walking the trails, just finding respite and restoring to roar, really restoring to roar a better way.

Jen Porter (56:38)
you

Wow.

Yeah.

Sounds amazing.

It sounds beautiful. So how can people find you and not, yes, how they can become members of what you're doing and join these classes and be involved in all that you're doing through this healing work and hope work, but also how to support you through whether it's donating, fundraising, sharing what it is that you're doing. What are ways that people can

can join and kind of link arms with you.

Trish McCall (57:29)
All right. Well, the first two things, I put out the nutritional nugget every month. So it keeps people abreast of what we're doing, of how we're growing and how they can actually help it actually. So, you know, we have very specifics actually, you know, at this point, what are we looking for? So if they would, if they want to sign up for that, they can go to the website at www.wildhavenandco.

And on that home page they can subscribe for the nutritional nugget. But we also have a donation page that also they could go to and it's the same thing. www.wildhavenandco.com slash or forward slash donate. So.

Jen Porter (58:21)
donate and what are they

what are they supporting when they do that?

Trish McCall (58:25)
So they are supporting us founding the nonprofit and stuff. I people often forget that they're helping us found the nonprofit. You have to have a place, you have to have a space, I should say, for people to get help. So that would be helping us to sponsor people who can't afford to come and need it, but also to, like I said,

Jen Porter (58:48)
Yeah.

Trish McCall (58:54)
purchase materials and supplies so that we can take it to them and stuff. Like I said, all my studio pretty much was crushed in the Hurricane Helene. So we're having to build that back from scratch and stuff. So any of that kind of help. And this helps us rebuild our community even here. So the goal is to work here and then near and far.

Jen Porter (59:16)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Trish McCall (59:22)
Been to Mexico and Peru, working there as well, but we really feel the heart is working in our neck of the woods.

Jen Porter (59:31)
There's so much need.

Trish McCall (59:33)
Exactly.

Jen Porter (59:34)
Wow.

Talk about impact. You know, someone could make a donation and change people's lives.

Trish McCall (59:41)
Exactly. Absolutely.

Jen Porter (59:43)
Wow. Well, Trish, thanks

for being here. I'm going to put all of the contact information and ways to connect with you in the show notes so people can access it. Thank you so much for being here, sharing your story. Thank you for what you're doing, the hope and the healing that you're bringing through your work. And I can hear the heart behind what you're doing and just the impact that you're having is just incredible. So thanks for being here, Trish. Everybody connect with her and you'll see the website.

the Facebook page to connect with you. And until the next time, the lioness in me sees the lioness in you.